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RSSJust this morning I found out that Atheists are raising money to put up billboards. This bothers me for the obvious reason of being a Christ-follower, but I am somewhat perplexed as how/why this is happening.
Atheism is an idea that God does not exist. By the vary nature of this idea, they are also opposed to religion (which is completely tied into a deity).
This act, however, shows me that some groups of atheists are acting as a religion in and of themselves. They are trying to convert people to their belief system, they are raising support for the awareness of their group, and you can even get a tax credit for donating to their cause.
What a crazy idea! Let’s have a religion that carries no hope. A religion that leaves us with the idea that all things are meaningless and are just some random chain of events. A religion that claims we exist because of some cosmological event that who knows where it came from, but since God doesn’t exist we can never answer that question.
Who would want to be a part of something like that? Maybe people who are angry with the Church. Or maybe it’s because people are searching, and this group is willing to make an effort to reach those people. I wish Christians around the world would do the same.
Atheist Billboard
25 November, 2009
Christianity Atheism, Atheist, Christianity, Religion, Theism 14 Comments
morsec0de
Nov 25, 2009 @ 10:35:44
“This act, however, shows me that some groups of atheists are acting as a religion in and of themselves. ”
Actually, it shows they’re acting as a group. A group is not, by default, a religion. If it were, every sports team and book club would be considered religions.
“They are trying to convert people to their belief system”
Not to nitpick, but it seems clear that the billboard you have shown is not trying to convert, but merely calling out to those who are already converted.
“that carries no hope. A religion that leaves us with the idea that all things are meaningless and are just some random chain of events.”
That’s not at all what atheism, or any of the groups or worldviews that contain atheism as part of them, is about. At least none that I would join. And it seems clear that if these groups believed all things were meaningless, they wouldn’t waste money on a sign. It’s why nihilists never advertise.
Mick
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:02:23
According to definition.com, a religion is “the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices.” I’m not calling all groups that come together a religion, but in this particular case they are coming together with a set beliefs that are spiritual, or the lack there of.
A billboard is an advertisement any way you look at it. Convert may be too powerful of a word; influence or persuade may better fit. But your argument about them calling only to other atheists would be the same as a Coca-Cola billboard only calling to Coca-Cola drinkers. Or a billboard for Jesus only calling out to Christians. It may not be a direct move in trying to influence people, but it happens.
And I am curious as to what hope and meaning this world has if there is not Creator? Maybe I’m missing something all together, but it just doesn’t seem conceivable with such a belief system. I do agree that atheism does not think it is a part of them, but isn’t that just the natural conclusion?
morsec0de
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:18:09
“but in this particular case they are coming together with a set beliefs that are spiritual, or the lack there of.”
Atheism is a single position about a single belief. It’s not a set of anything.
But it’s really just semantics.
“It may not be a direct move in trying to influence people, but it happens.”
My point is that the billboard is specifically asking for people who don’t believe in a god.
“And I am curious as to what hope and meaning this world has if there is not Creator? ”
Hope and meaning in ourselves. Why do I need a deity to find meaning in my life? I don’t. I get meaning and joy out of helping others, improving other peoples’ lives and my life as well.
Every huge step that medical science takes fighting disease gives me more than enough hope.
mattsummers
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:25:08
I would agree that Atheism of this sort is a form of religion. It has a cosmology (See Evolution), an intent to convert (See Richard Dawkins et al), and a system of salvation (disbelief and then deliverance from evil wrought by religion; i.e. the belief that evil primarily stems from religious fundamentalism/fanaticism).
Brent Rasmussen
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:27:29
Hi Mick,
I don’t think you understand the billboard. Basically, it is saying, “Atheists exist” to reassure fellow atheists out there who might feel like they’re alone in the world. They’re not. That’s the point trying to be made here.
How exactly does stating that atheists exist mean that we’re trying to “convert” or “persuade” someone?
And while I’m at it, why is it OK for religious folks to try and convert or persuade someone, but not for atheists?
So, while theist are ACTUALLY trying to convert or persuade people, atheists are NOT.
And we still get the short end of the stick, and whiny complaints about us simply stating that we exist.
It has the same hope and meaning it did before. That is to say, it has the hope and meaning that we assign, imbue, and impart to it. (By “we” I mean humanity.)
Just because you cannot conceive of something, does not make it untrue or inconceivable.
I also do not think you understand exactly what atheism is. You keep referring to it as if it were a belief, or a “belief system”. It’s not, I can assure you.
The words “theism” and “atheism” (as well as “theist” and “atheist”) are descriptions. They describe the presence or absence of one single belief in a human being. That is, a “god belief” of any kind.
In other words, if god belief of any kind is present within a human being, then that person can be described as a “theist”.
Conversely, if god belief of any kind is absent within a human being, then that person may be described as an “atheist”.
So, you see that “atheism” and “theism” aren’t actually “beliefs” or “belief systems” at all. They are merely a handy way to describe one, single, solitary aspect of a person.
To attribute MORE to them than what is actually there is simple ignorance. Educate yourself out of your ignorance, and rise above it Mick! This should not be a battle between descriptions! That’d be silly!
Robert
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:32:42
Hi Mick. Some of your statements are unfortunately not accurate.
Close, but not quite. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, not just the Christian god.
This is wildly off the mark. If atheism entails anti-religion, you would not see religious atheists, but in fact there are many such individuals. Also, religion is not tied to a deity. Buddhism has no deities, for example.
A belief system is not necessarily a religion. Confusion on this point seems prevalent among the religious.
Here’s an even crazier idea! Let’s have a religion that that requires you to correctly choose the one sect out of thousands, otherwise it’ll send you to punishment for eternity for choosing wrongly. That says you were created because your creator–all-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing–needed something to stroke its ego.
See? We can both play this game.
Mick
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:40:44
It may be a matter of semantics, but that is not entirely worth discussing. I like what Matt stated. And I also agree that the billboard is asking for people who all ready do not believe in God. What I was trying to say is that just simply by having the billboard up, they are indirectly calling attention to people who are not sure. Intentional or not, it happens.
It would also seem that you have appeared to put your hope in mankind and the acts they do. Looking at your blog (Suddenly Atheist), I found out you were recently cured of cancer. That is great! I only hope for the best for you. As for me, however, I do not like to put my hope in man. Ultimately people will let you down at some point or another, and that is why I choose to put my hope in higher power.
morsec0de
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:46:31
“but that is not entirely worth discussing. I like what Matt stated.”
The problem is that atheism is only the lack in belief in a god. If you add anything to that, it becomes something else that includes atheism but isn’t only atheism. Like naturalism, materialism, humanism, etc.
It would be more accurate to compare those to religions. But any specific aspect of them is not a religion by itself, the same way that just belief that having a medallion with a particular person’s picture on it can bring luck is a religion by itself.
“What I was trying to say is that just simply by having the billboard up, they are indirectly calling attention to people who are not sure. Intentional or not, it happens.”
Agreed. As I said, I was nitpicking.
“I do not like to put my hope in man.”
I would rather put my hope in my fellow homo sapiens sapiens than in something that doesn’t even have good evidence that it exists, let alone interacts with reality.
Mick
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:47:29
I would agree with you that denominationalism is a terrible thing. Picking and choosing from thousands of sects is crazy, and shouldn’t happen. That is why any Christian needs to root their faith in Jesus and not in the teachings of people such as John Calvin, Martin Luther, or even Paul for that matter. It is a major fault of modern Christianity, and it only exists because of people. Which once again, is a reason I do not put my hope in mankind.
Besides, we don’t choose God. We just have to accept the fact that he died for us. Nothing more.
Mick
Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:54:59
I honestly do not feel like discussing this matter much longer. Not because I think it is fruitless and boring, but because I have other things to do and neither one of us is going to be persuaded the other way. I very much appreciate the dialogue that we have shared.
I want to end on one last note: God does interact with reality. It happens all the time, we just fail to see it sometimes. From the rising and setting of the sun, to all the unexplained things that happen in our world. But ultimately, you have to choose to believe.
Brent Rasmussen
Nov 25, 2009 @ 12:04:55
Ah. The old “This is boring” argument.
Well played! That one is hard to argue against.
Mick
Nov 25, 2009 @ 12:07:13
This is not boring at all. I actually find it very interesting, and that is why I must stop. If I do not put an end to this discussion (at least for today), I will be very unproductive. If you leave comments, I will try and respond over the next couple of days.
darren
Nov 30, 2009 @ 20:04:08
I’m probably too simple minded too contribute to this discussion. But I appreciate the irony of the billboard. “Don’t Believe in God?” with an answer in big letters in the sky “You are not alone!”. Perhaps without meaning too the atheists have spoken for God. We are truly not alone!
Goadiffizesia
Dec 02, 2009 @ 06:09:24
nice answers i like it